Transcript

00:06
how's it going everyone this is barrett
00:08
with portakeeper
00:09
it's been a minute since i've done a
00:11
video been really busy
00:14
selling support keepers to you all and
00:17
just my day-to-day job keeps me really
00:19
busy
00:19
so i've been wanting to do the wrap-up
00:22
comparison between these two grinders
00:25
uh i've been using the df64 turn
00:28
solo and the niche zero for quite a
00:31
while now a couple months
00:33
and it's just time to
00:37
i think declare a winner so
00:40
i don't know if you guys saw this but i
00:43
can't believe james hoffman did me like
00:44
this
00:45
i've been calling the df64 the niche
00:47
killer for a couple months
00:49
i've even been saying it in some of my
00:51
hashtags
00:53
then his first video comes out and it
00:55
says the niche killer with a question
00:57
mark
00:59
so well here let's
01:02
let's just show this real quick there
01:05
you go james
01:06
the niche color
01:10
so today i want to discuss the aspects
01:13
of each of these grinders gives pros and
01:15
cons to each tell you which one
01:16
i like and we're just going to go from
01:19
there
01:20
both grinders are consumer grade single
01:23
disc grinders designed to be used in a
01:25
home kitchen
01:26
so that means they're not nsf certified
01:29
to use in like an espresso shop or
01:31
something like that so they're not
01:33
neither of them are pro-grade
01:35
these are nsf certified so you can use
01:38
those in a shop they're
01:40
they're the big grinders so
01:43
let's start with price this one starts
01:46
about 450 500 i think the msrp is like
01:49
six on it
01:50
but i really don't see it much more than
01:52
that if you got in on the early bird
01:55
with espresso outlet he was selling for
01:56
like 250 bucks is this crazy
01:59
so pretty pretty inexpensive
02:04
but you're not getting a piece of junk
02:06
like some grinders
02:08
this one here the niche i've seen it i
02:10
think on their website it says like
02:12
500 pounds or euros or whatever they
02:14
sell in and
02:17
i did the google um
02:21
equivalent of it and it's about 560 us
02:24
dollars
02:26
but you have to ship it and pay
02:29
importation fees
02:32
so the last time i looked is like 675
02:34
700
02:35
so we're looking at like 400 to
02:38
650 let's say 700 so the niche is i
02:41
think considerably
02:42
more expensive i've heard a lot of
02:45
people say like even if you put like the
02:47
couple hundred dollar ssp burrs into
02:49
this it still costs less than a niche to
02:51
import
02:52
we're going to go into that a little bit
02:53
more later but
02:55
the df64 definitely a little bit cheaper
02:59
both grinders are in great demand if any
03:02
of you have tried to buy a niche you
03:03
know exactly what i'm talking about
03:06
it's been out for a couple years every
03:07
time they drop a batch they're sold out
03:09
they're sold out
03:10
so fast so there is a lot of hype behind
03:13
them
03:14
and that sells them i think the
03:17
it's brand new to the us it's been on
03:20
the market
03:21
a lot of people don't realize this this
03:23
thing's actually been out there for a
03:24
little while
03:25
and people have been using it overseas
03:27
but it just hasn't gained that
03:28
popularity
03:30
and someone finally just found it one
03:31
day and now
03:34
everyone wants them so
03:38
it's not just been mass-produced but
03:39
it's it's getting to that point where i
03:41
think it's gonna be like niche where
03:43
you might start waiting for these a
03:45
little bit more you people are already
03:46
waiting on these because
03:48
the manufacturer's not really tooled up
03:50
to make just tons of them
03:52
but we'll see what happens
03:56
so now let's talk about some of the
03:58
features and build construction on these
03:59
grinders
04:02
and the df-64 uses these italia mill
04:06
burrs and i wasn't very familiar with
04:09
the
04:10
the manufacturer of the burr
04:13
but they are essentially a mozzer super
04:16
jolly 64 millimeter compatible bird i'm
04:19
gonna take this part real quick show you
04:26
guys
04:32
so they're a 64 millimeter burr
04:36
and really nice i mean these are very
04:38
nice burrs
04:40
um the upside of the mozzer
04:45
compatibility is that you can use mods
04:48
or burrs
04:49
they have like the ssp boit it's kind of
04:52
a small
04:54
not heard of brand but they make some
04:56
pretty premium like ssp style burrs
04:59
and you can give them a different grind
05:00
profile so you like the unimodal you can
05:03
get more of the
05:05
um all-around burrs like these for drip
05:08
and espresso
05:10
you can get the ssp speed birds you can
05:12
you can put pretty much anything that
05:13
you can put in a super jolly which
05:15
those burgers are in more than you
05:16
realize you can put those burrs into
05:18
this
05:19
no problem so i think that's a huge
05:22
plus on this um
05:26
i'm going to show you this real quick
05:28
it's not really part of this
05:30
part of the burrs but i do kind of find
05:32
aligning this
05:34
collar to be a bit difficult
05:38
you kind of have to press down there we
05:41
go
05:42
i heard it click but it's definitely a
05:45
little bit more difficult than like the
05:47
niche
05:50
and then once you get down to the very
05:51
end it is a little bit more stiff you
05:53
don't want this thing moving around
05:55
but the upside is you don't have like a
05:57
set screw or something that you're
05:58
trying to
06:00
uh retain your setting with which some
06:03
of the older
06:04
like mother style grinders they had
06:06
something like that
06:08
so just like the df-64 the niche also
06:11
uses mauser burs
06:13
and the big difference here is that
06:16
they're using
06:16
a conical bur instead i just have the
06:20
screwdriver
06:21
here we go so i like to show y'all
06:25
it does come with a screwdriver
06:30
it's a 10 millimeter screw
06:33
and you might not have to do this well
06:35
you do to take the bur out but
06:38
unscrew the top and i've kind of found
06:41
grab a few fingers
06:46
you can shimmy it out so there's the
06:48
bottom burr you can tell it's quite a
06:50
bit different it's hollow
06:52
you can see the mozzer name on the back
06:56
and the center portion
07:00
which fits in there so there's your
07:03
conical burrs
07:04
totally different type of burr they are
07:07
a
07:08
premium burr in my opinion with the
07:09
mozzer so that's a
07:11
major plus you're not getting some cheap
07:13
small
07:15
conical burrs and
07:18
assembling that this part's a little bit
07:20
easier to light up
07:22
i think the way they machined it it's
07:23
just a little bit
07:26
easier so there we go
07:31
and then you have this disc it's an
07:33
anti-popcorning disc we'll talk about
07:34
that in a minute
07:36
and you screw that back down
07:40
so there's your burr comparison i'd say
07:42
the big plus
07:43
is these are just kind of good out the
07:46
gate
07:46
where these are also get out the gate
07:48
but if you're wanting
07:50
to get a little bit crazy go like
07:51
unimodal ssp or something
07:54
you can totally do that with this where
07:55
you can't with the niche so
07:58
i'm a big fan of the flat burrs the flat
08:00
burgers i think they make
08:02
a cleaner cup that's got a lot more
08:04
clarity and a lot more sweetness
08:07
the conical they're just a little bit
08:09
more boring a little bit
08:11
i say well-rounded it's well-rounded and
08:14
but nothing really stands out you're not
08:16
really
08:16
pulling that like wow that's it's got
08:19
this crazy
08:19
cherry or this crazy uh pit fruit stuff
08:23
or like crazy
08:26
citrus you just it's just kind of there
08:29
so there's my thoughts on the burrs
08:34
the dosing cups let's put this back
08:42
the dosing cups are also pretty
08:43
different from each other so the dosing
08:45
cup on this is clear
08:47
and a lot of people are complaining oh
08:48
it's so cheap oh so cheap
08:51
i kind of like it because when you're
08:53
grinding
08:54
and you take your portafilter and you're
08:57
going to put it on like that you're
08:58
going to flip it
08:59
and give it a shake you can kind of do
09:01
side to side
09:02
and get them distributed really easy and
09:05
if you look the lip is not very deep
09:08
on this it is thicker but it's really
09:11
not that deep
09:12
so i haven't really had any problems
09:14
with like ground distribution with this
09:16
i kind of like this cup so much even if
09:18
i didn't have this grinder i would
09:19
probably own one of these
09:22
the niche it's you could say it's a more
09:24
premium cup which it is it's a 58
09:26
millimeter stainless steel cup
09:28
this is the older style has the ridge on
09:30
the inside which
09:31
a lot of people have complained about i
09:34
think
09:35
my two things that kind of annoy me with
09:37
it is
09:38
you can see how deep it goes i mean it
09:39
goes almost the depth
09:41
of the entire basket
09:45
and then the other thing that it's a pro
09:48
and it's a con
09:49
the the dosing cup itself there is like
09:53
almost no room so if you're like putting
09:55
it in at like an angle
09:57
i'm almost always hitting it and when i
10:00
lift it up in the back
10:01
i'm chipping like the paint in the back
10:04
so
10:05
i wish they'd just give you like a
10:06
couple more millimeters here but
10:08
like right here it's probably a little
10:09
bit too much but that's that's really
10:11
the difference between the dosing cups
10:14
if i had to choose one i'd probably
10:15
choose the clear one
10:17
despite it being much cheaper
10:22
something that this has that the niche
10:24
also doesn't have is
10:25
this doubles as a portafilter fork so
10:28
you can plug the portafilter in
10:31
and it it's
10:34
it's okay um if i'm using like an
10:37
on-demand grinder this thing is designed
10:40
for it it's not adjusted for this one at
10:41
the moment but it is designed to
10:44
take that portafilter and not have much
10:46
of a mess
10:48
this one it has a lot of room right here
10:51
so
10:51
as you're bellowing it it might come out
10:54
it might not
10:56
i really like doing it in the cup i'm
10:58
kind of holding my hand over it
11:00
and then shaking it and hand
11:04
[Music]
11:05
dosing so although
11:09
you can do it it's not my favorite i
11:12
know
11:12
they've said like oh it falls out oh
11:15
well they have these little rubber
11:17
uh covers that go on the fork and mine
11:20
actually came with like four extras and
11:21
there's two
11:22
on it so i have not replaced any of
11:25
these this is exactly how it came and
11:27
this has never
11:28
once fallen out it just fits in it stays
11:30
in
11:31
not really had any issues with it same
11:32
thing with my portafilter
11:34
this is a rocket portafilter here's an
11:38
aftermarket porta filter i mean they all
11:40
stay in there like
11:40
pretty nice here's another one
11:47
um i'd say the downside i don't have one
11:50
in here right now
11:51
but like yeah the gaussian ones and it's
11:54
going to go in at like this crazy angle
11:55
it does hold it
11:57
if you have like the breville with the
11:58
54 millimeter baskets it's not going to
12:00
fit you might be able to like kind of
12:01
prop
12:02
the tabs which isn't a big deal if
12:04
you're trying to do it directly in
12:06
i would still probably use a dosing cup
12:10
so there's the dosing cups uh the clump
12:14
buster on these two
12:16
this one has two silicon membranes like
12:19
one millimeter silicon
12:22
sheet sheet silicon pieces right here
12:25
and they have like a slit
12:26
in it and i noticed when i was using it
12:30
it does hold the grounds in until you
12:32
start to bellow which isn't
12:34
necessarily a good thing because what's
12:36
going to happen is you have your flapper
12:38
wheels and you have more grounds coming
12:39
out
12:40
and those grounds as they build up if
12:42
they're not being
12:43
pushed out they're going to start
12:46
grinding against each other and going a
12:48
little bit finer
12:50
since then they've actually improved
12:52
this membrane
12:53
they have a much thinner one that
12:55
supposedly does not push back as hard on
12:57
the beans as it grinds
12:59
so i don't have it i have the original
13:01
i've not really had very many problems
13:03
with this as
13:04
is stock but just know that they are
13:08
working to improve this
13:09
uh there's like a ton of people doing
13:11
some crazy stuff with aftermarket ones
13:13
i actually have my own idea for an
13:14
aftermarket one i just haven't done it
13:16
yet
13:17
the niche i would say historically has
13:20
never had a clump buster
13:22
at least according to a couple people
13:24
that i've talked to this one actually
13:25
has one metal bar that just goes through
13:28
the middle where it comes out so it's
13:30
not doing much of anything in my opinion
13:34
the conical burrs themselves they're
13:36
usually a lot less clumpy
13:38
because when they come out they're a lot
13:39
less fluffy so on the flat bur
13:42
you're getting kind of this like kind of
13:43
cloud like that tamps way down
13:45
where these this the ground distribution
13:48
they
13:50
it's hard to explain this is the way
13:52
they stack in the cup they don't feel as
13:54
fluffy to me
13:55
so not the end of the world this is
14:00
something to point out the adjustment i
14:02
showed the adjustment a bit ago
14:04
so on the niche they technically adjust
14:07
the scene they technically both have a
14:09
collar
14:09
the niche it has the numbers on the body
14:13
and then this moves and has this ball
14:15
bearing
14:17
and that's the setting that you're on
14:19
and with the turn
14:20
you're actually moving the same collar
14:24
but you're moving the numbers and you're
14:27
supposed to
14:27
line it up with this little line in the
14:28
front which i find kind of terrible
14:31
so the first thing i did was i made
14:33
these little
14:34
dial indicators this one's not tightened
14:36
right now it has a set screw
14:38
but it has a hole in the middle that
14:40
lines up with these numbers as you're
14:42
passing by
14:43
you can see the numbers but trying to go
14:46
like one setting yeah you can go by feel
14:50
but having that arrow there really makes
14:52
a nice improvement so
14:54
that's probably something that they
14:55
missed the mark on i feel like this is a
14:57
cheap way
14:58
uh portakeeper.com they're like 12 14
15:02
bucks
15:03
and it's a huge improvement i think
15:07
they're both infinite adjustment so
15:10
they're not a step
15:10
grinder uh you'll have like the the
15:13
bronzers where you're like click click
15:15
click
15:16
as you adjust it this is smooth so if
15:18
you're just barely going
15:20
between settings it's that infinite
15:24
adjustment so
15:24
these micro adjustments are really easy
15:26
to do with both of these
15:30
the niche the i
15:33
docked this because of this line the
15:34
niche this ball bearing i think is
15:37
not good in my opinion i don't know i
15:39
don't like it i think it's hard to see
15:41
i kind of feel like the roundness to it
15:44
it's not really like it's casting a
15:46
shadow but it's hard like if you're not
15:48
straight on with that ball
15:50
and it's like way over here you're like
15:51
what setting is it actually on
15:54
so then you're like putting your head
15:55
over here and you're like okay it's on
15:57
45 but from the front it's really hard
16:00
to see we're here
16:01
you're not really having to look it's
16:03
all in the front so i think that's
16:05
a drawback to that ball bearing i don't
16:07
think that's very good
16:12
so my biggest pet peeve between these
16:14
two and the thing that i've always had
16:16
an issue with the niche on
16:17
is the motors so
16:20
let's start with the the df64 i'm i'm
16:23
calling on all sorts of things df-64
16:26
turn solo giado all these different gi
16:29
auto
16:30
different names and
16:34
on them the motor on this the motor is
16:36
literally
16:38
that big i mean it's it's huge and it's
16:40
the whole circumference so
16:42
you pretty much are buying a motor and
16:45
then they put a grind chamber on top so
16:46
this is a
16:47
120 volt ac motor different countries it
16:50
might be 240 i don't know
16:53
the us 124 120 volt
16:56
ac motor and this is the entire motor
16:59
it's
16:59
it's heavy it's an extruded aluminum
17:02
case
17:04
and it's just a huge motor it's a huge
17:06
motor for such a small grinder
17:10
on the flip side on the niche
17:14
so the niche i think the motor is pretty
17:16
embarrassing
17:18
it has a very inexpensive motor in it
17:20
like you'd be shocked at how little
17:22
they're paying for this motor we're
17:23
talking
17:25
dollars probably less than 10 bucks
17:29
so when i disassembled the niche in one
17:32
of my videos check it out
17:34
uh i was in shock it's a cheap drill
17:36
motor it's pretty
17:38
reminiscent of what they put into like a
17:41
200
17:42
brazza so i'm not really dogging on
17:45
bratza
17:46
but i really feel like if you're paying
17:48
700
17:49
for a grinder it should have a little
17:52
bit better of a motor in it i mean
17:54
the motor itself's only about that big
17:57
around
17:58
about that long and it has a plastic
18:02
gear box with
18:04
ball bearings in it the all the gears
18:06
are plastic
18:07
i just i think that's been my biggest
18:10
complaint about this yeah
18:11
okay people say it makes a good cup of
18:13
coffee but
18:15
you're way over paying for this grinder
18:17
it's just not worth
18:18
seven hundred dollars i actually paid
18:20
more than seven hundred dollars just
18:21
because i couldn't get my hands on one
18:23
for these videos so
18:26
i think the motor is a huge letdown um
18:31
we'll just leave it at that so while
18:34
we're talking about motors
18:35
let's talk about grind time so this
18:37
thing it's got 64 millimeter burrs it's
18:39
pretty
18:40
close to what like my super jolly does
18:43
about
18:43
10 to 12 seconds not the worst
18:46
not the best most people they probably
18:50
would know no different
18:51
but it's it's middle of the road
18:55
and that's for an 18 gram dose so we're
18:57
talking espresso here
18:59
and
19:02
we're going to go over the niche the
19:04
niche
19:06
it's like at least double so
19:10
we're we're like maybe 10 seconds over
19:11
here this is about a gram a second we're
19:13
at like 20 seconds
19:14
for an 18 gram dose i mean we're not
19:16
talking that much coffee here
19:18
and i've even had him goes like 25
19:21
seconds so
19:22
pretty long um
19:25
comparing that to the atom 75 that i
19:28
like
19:29
the m75 or like this k30 it does it
19:32
about four seconds
19:34
so 18 grams less than four seconds
19:37
so the 10-12 is doable here
19:40
this thing is driving me nuts at how
19:42
slow it goes
19:43
and i'll talk about a little bit more
19:47
but i feel like
19:48
at the very end when you're trying to
19:49
get the grounds out this thing's
19:50
supposed to retain zero but i still
19:52
found myself like
19:53
patting it and doing all this stuff this
19:56
thing just took forever to get like one
19:57
cup of coffee i just kind of don't get
19:59
it
20:00
so i would say that the df-64
20:05
is a little bit more superior in the way
20:07
that
20:09
it is faster i don't want to wait half a
20:11
minute to
20:12
just grind my coffee and then wait
20:14
another half a minute to brew it
20:16
and that's not even including tamping
20:18
and distribution and all that stuff so
20:20
where i can usually do all that stuff
20:23
with my atom within about 10 seconds i'm
20:25
spending maybe a minute and a half of my
20:27
niche
20:28
that's wild
20:31
um mess so
20:34
i know that's been one thing that's been
20:35
pointed out that the df64 is messy i've
20:37
actually done a video on it
20:39
so i've done the research and i kind of
20:41
know
20:43
when you're using it on less than 30
20:47
i really don't have any mess when i go
20:50
up to
20:51
let's say 50 or 60 the chaff wants to
20:54
start sticking to the body especially
20:56
when you use the bellows
20:58
so one thing that i like to do is
21:01
you can use a spray bottle and you spray
21:03
into the cup
21:04
or i should have brought some down i use
21:07
chopsticks
21:08
and you just kind of wet them under your
21:10
sink and you stir your beans with your
21:12
chopstick
21:13
this gets just the smallest amount of
21:15
moisture
21:16
on your beans then you dose it
21:20
and grind it i haven't really had any
21:23
mess
21:24
so i did a comparison with and without
21:26
the the water added and without it's
21:28
it's not existent
21:30
so i'll call james out he's he's like oh
21:34
so messy oh it's so messy and he's
21:36
criticizing it oh such a mess oh
21:39
and then he's like he's got his leg p64
21:43
or as lynn weber eg1 that's like over
21:45
3000 bucks
21:46
he's over here this little sprayer and
21:48
doing all this this water and stuff
21:50
and he's like oh this this fairly
21:53
inexpensive i just can't do the
21:55
the water bottle on it so i'm
21:58
i think it's kind of ridiculous if
22:01
you're worried about the mess
22:03
deal with it with a little bit of water
22:05
it's really easy to clean up
22:06
worst case use a brush i usually keep
22:09
these brushes around i like paint
22:10
brushes this is a little fancier barista
22:12
brush
22:13
but let's clean it up it's not a big
22:16
deal
22:18
use some water
22:21
the niche itself is pretty mess free all
22:24
around
22:25
i think my biggest issue is when i'm
22:28
like kind of banging on it to get the
22:30
grounds out i mean i'm having some come
22:31
out right now
22:33
and have a couple fell out
22:36
um usually what happens to me is i'll
22:39
hit it
22:40
i'll kind of bump it on accident and
22:42
i'll get some grounds in this tray
22:44
the tray is removable you can brush it
22:45
off in your sink so it's pretty easy to
22:47
clean up but
22:48
i'd say less messy overall some of the
22:51
chaff does get stuck in the top
22:53
it does in this one too so it's an
22:56
espresso grinder espresso grinders are
22:57
not clean
23:00
there is excessive amounts of chaff and
23:03
stuff i mean if you've used
23:04
barata you really know what i'm talking
23:06
about but i really don't think the df64
23:09
is
23:09
all that bad in an earlier video
23:13
i also checked for retention and
23:17
i started by saying
23:21
i didn't really know how much this thing
23:23
was going to retain especially with that
23:24
membrane in there
23:26
and what i found out is this actually
23:28
retained a little bit less than the
23:30
niche
23:31
if i use the bellows so if you're not
23:34
using the bellows you're obviously going
23:35
to retain a lot
23:36
but when i did these side by side this
23:38
has no bellows this has the bellows
23:40
this actually had a little bit less than
23:42
this we'll say it's a wash overall
23:45
pretty much zero attention in both i
23:48
won't say zero it's about half a gram
23:50
i got 0.3 and 0.5 grams
23:53
so not zero but that's pretty dang good
23:57
because your average grinder is going to
23:58
retain at least one gram
24:00
most of them pushing 2 grams so if
24:03
retention is a thing to you
24:04
but these are solid performers in my
24:07
book
24:10
for popcorning the df-64 definitely has
24:13
some popcorning if you're not familiar
24:14
with that
24:16
when it gets down to the very end uh we
24:18
can maybe do it real quick
24:21
it will pop some beans up
24:27
let's turn them on see how they're
24:29
popping up
24:31
that's without the lid on so it does
24:33
have some popcorning issues
24:35
but
24:39
put your lid on how hard is it you
24:41
should be grinding with your lid on
24:43
anyway this thing has a lid on
24:44
grind it with your lid on it's quieter
24:49
and then use your bellow
24:52
and you don't really have this popcorn
24:55
issue
24:55
now i've been designing something to
24:57
help with this
24:59
and we'll see how it turns out this
25:01
actually has this anti-pop corning disc
25:03
on the inside so it has this little tiny
25:05
u-shaped slot and as it spins it just
25:07
lets like one or two beans in at a time
25:18
so not much popcorn and i can't leave
25:20
the lid open because it has this little
25:21
button i could probably bypass it but
25:24
uh they had pop coordinating issues in
25:26
the beginning they made this disc
25:28
and that helped fix it you can see that
25:30
the
25:31
the df64 definitely has some popcorning
25:33
issues but
25:35
use your dang lid it's not that hard to
25:37
put the lid on and you should have it on
25:39
anyway so i don't i don't really buy
25:41
into
25:42
that it's such a big issue
25:45
so funny part the appearance so i think
25:49
both of these things are ugly
25:51
they have no italian styling they don't
25:53
look good next to
25:54
my espresso machine they're just
25:58
they're not italian and i mean i got my
26:00
diddy over here this thing's ugly ascend
26:02
too it's a brick
26:03
but you have like your k30 i mean
26:05
they're they're not the most attractive
26:07
but they're pretty cool looking
26:09
but at least that thing looks italian
26:11
this german
26:12
it looks more italian we'll put it that
26:14
way you have like the mozzer
26:16
they just have that real nice elegant
26:17
look these they're just
26:19
kind of dorky they're goofy looking so
26:23
i thought it was pretty funny i've seen
26:25
some people online
26:26
they call this df64
26:29
in the beginning they said it looked
26:30
kinda like r2d2
26:33
and yeah i can see that uh if you've
26:35
seen mystery science theater
26:38
i think my favorite one is that it looks
26:39
like toms servo
26:41
and now i can't even see it it has the
26:43
beak it's
26:45
it's basically tom servo so
26:48
not the most elegant this the niche i
26:52
think the favorite one that i've seen
26:53
is that it's a barbie size japanese
26:55
toilet
26:57
so got the lid i can see it
27:00
they got the crazy lines on it so it
27:03
doesn't really fit that nice italian
27:05
look in my opinion neither of these
27:08
the wood on the niche i think is pretty
27:10
ugly i think if you had like
27:13
i think this is birch or something it
27:14
doesn't match wood if your kitchen's not
27:16
oak which
27:17
oak's kind of more of a 90s wood a lot
27:20
of people are going with like cherry and
27:21
mahogany and some of the darker woods
27:23
or like the really white woods which it
27:25
might look okay with but
27:27
i really feel like they're cornering
27:28
people with oak
27:31
where this i think you could fit into a
27:33
lot more kitchens much easily
27:35
more easily so
27:39
not a big fan of either of these on from
27:42
look standpoint
27:44
i will say it's more of a
27:47
material thing instead of looks but this
27:50
is solid aluminum or i say solid loom
27:52
this is cast aluminum
27:54
and then it's been painted this is
27:56
actually a piece of extruded aluminum
27:58
and it's not been painted it's actually
28:01
like a
28:02
high quality vinyl wrap so they're doing
28:04
some pretty cool stuff with these
28:06
i didn't even realize that it was vinyl
28:07
for a long time until i took it apart
28:10
so really easy if you wanted to swap
28:14
this out to something cool you could put
28:15
i don't know whatever you want you could
28:17
even put like the fake wood around this
28:19
very easily look really good
28:23
um user experience
28:28
so i saw an awesome video that the user
28:31
experience is so great on the niche and
28:34
it's so terrible on this it's just it's
28:36
not good but it's not bad
28:38
um i really don't think it's that bad of
28:41
a user experience i think my biggest
28:43
complaint is where the power button is
28:45
it's down beneath the dosing cup so if
28:47
you have a dosing cup in place it is
28:49
ambidextrous if you're left-handed
28:51
right-handed
28:52
up against a wall up against the machine
28:54
whatever you're not having a switch or a
28:56
button on the side that's in the place
28:58
but
28:59
it make more sense to put it up here i
29:00
know why they didn't
29:02
because there's a motor right there and
29:03
a grind chamber right there so they put
29:05
it down at the bottom that was the
29:06
most economical place to put it but a
29:09
lot of people have complained about the
29:10
button
29:11
i am with you i've gotten used to it i
29:14
thought it was
29:14
just stupid about the first day and
29:17
after a day i didn't even really
29:18
think much about it just slip your hand
29:20
under there you kind of just flat palm
29:21
it hit it
29:23
on off not a big deal um
29:27
the niche i kind of i've always thought
29:30
that this random switch on the side was
29:32
pretty goofy
29:33
now it's the same switch that's on like
29:35
my rocket over here
29:37
but it just doesn't fit this machine at
29:39
all
29:40
i don't know what would fit maybe this
29:42
little toggle switch or a toggle switch
29:44
toggle switch having one in the middle
29:47
but that
29:48
that'd be where their logo is i just
29:49
feel like this is really
29:51
dorky and dumb
29:54
[Music]
29:56
not a big fan of where the switches are
29:57
on this so the user experience i really
30:00
don't think from a switch standpoint
30:02
they both have their cons this is maybe
30:05
a little bit easier
30:07
but i feel like it's in the way this is
30:08
definitely more awkward to get to
30:11
for the bellows on the df64 i really
30:13
don't mind the bellows
30:16
you can do it two different ways you can
30:17
pull the whole bellow off or you can
30:19
leave the bellows in you can pop the lid
30:21
off this lid is like a piece of machined
30:23
aluminum
30:25
i have found that i like pulling the
30:27
whole thing out and that's because
30:29
usually
30:30
when i'm doing this what happens is
30:33
it'll slide out of my hands
30:34
and it's actually falling on the floor
30:36
try to put it in the camera
30:38
i got a couple dents
30:42
and it's a it's a heavy piece of
30:43
aluminum so that's why it dented
30:45
and i've had better luck just leaving it
30:47
in push it down put it to the side dose
30:50
it
30:51
put it back in so user experience with
30:54
the bellow i don't think is that bad
30:57
it is a little bit more awkward than
30:59
maybe like a lid
31:00
or like a hopper where you're taking the
31:02
whole lid off
31:04
this the user experience with it is
31:07
i think that i really don't like how
31:10
shallow that bowl is
31:11
and then at the very end when i'm
31:13
wanting my grinder to run as i'm like
31:15
kind of trying to bellow it
31:18
if you turn it on you lift the lid it
31:19
turns itself off because it has a safety
31:21
switch so i'm like
31:22
kind of patting it trying to get my
31:24
grounds to come out there's always a lot
31:25
that comes out
31:27
and then close it and maybe shake it a
31:29
little bit
31:30
and pat it again so so if anything i
31:33
don't think that the workflow is
31:35
much worse on this over this i think
31:37
that this
31:38
is a lot more cumbersome to use
31:42
it's maybe a little less carefree just
31:45
kind of dump your stuff in
31:46
and it turns on and it grinds and kind
31:49
of bang on it at the end
31:51
where this it's like oh it's so hard to
31:54
push this bellow oh
31:55
i mean it's not that hard this bella
31:59
um grind's twice as fast as this
32:03
i just think the workflow all around i
32:04
can i can go from dosing
32:07
to grinding bellow and then dosing my
32:10
portafilter within
32:12
probably 30 seconds this to me
32:15
is probably a solid minute and i'm used
32:18
to being much faster like 10 12 seconds
32:21
so
32:22
from a workflow standpoint i think the
32:25
df64
32:26
wins so my parting thoughts
32:31
i do think that the ds64 is the niche
32:34
killer
32:36
sorry to all the niche fans but
32:41
i just really like it
32:42
[Music]
32:44
now i have obviously a lot of nice
32:46
grinders i have a lot more not pictured
32:47
so
32:48
for me to say that i really like this
32:50
grinder i think should say a lot but
32:52
y'all don't know me so
32:54
in my opinion it it really is holding
32:57
its own
32:58
it has performed much better than i even
33:00
expected
33:02
i was not expecting it to perform this
33:04
well especially at the price point i'm
33:05
like man this thing's
33:06
way cheap it's probably got cheap
33:09
everything
33:10
cheap motor cheap
33:13
burrs like the italian burrs i just
33:15
wasn't familiar with so i'm like what
33:17
trash is this
33:18
even though they're like actually quite
33:20
nice and premium
33:22
electronics seem nice on the inside
33:24
they're very minimalistic
33:26
they do have a timer so if you were to
33:28
leave this on
33:30
and walk away it's going to turn itself
33:31
off after 45 seconds
33:34
this doesn't have that so i just really
33:37
like it all around
33:38
i think what's the most important for me
33:42
is that the df64 is outperforming the
33:47
niche and the cup
33:49
and it's outperforming it in the
33:51
espresso cup
33:52
v60 cup aeroplast cup good on the list
33:57
i really just prefer it all around the
33:59
niche i've
34:00
done some blind tests and when you're
34:02
looking on the graph
34:03
this is more centralized so it's more of
34:06
a circle
34:08
and on the flat bruise you'll have this
34:11
kind of like outlier over here it's like
34:12
oh man this cherry and strawberry and
34:14
rhubarb is like really popping on this
34:16
bean
34:17
where it's much more flat on this so
34:20
i think i'm getting the complexities out
34:22
of this i'm not getting as good as like
34:24
a larger like 75 or 83 millimeter burr
34:28
where it's really gonna bring those out
34:31
but it
34:32
is doing quite well uh it's gonna take a
34:34
little bit more to dial in
34:36
to get those out so we're talking just
34:39
the smallest to micro adjustments but
34:43
i like flat burr if you like a little
34:45
bit more boring
34:46
not to think about a coffee i mean the
34:48
conical might be for you
34:50
so i won't say that i hate the niche
34:54
i'm glad that i got a chance to try it
34:56
out see what the hype was about
34:58
a lot of people said that you're going
35:00
to like it a lot more than what you
35:01
think
35:04
i really don't i just didn't it's not
35:06
for me
35:08
i've used a lot of conical burr grinders
35:11
in the past i've used the compact k10
35:13
i thought it made amazing amazing
35:15
amazing espresso it's just
35:16
it's totally different than anything
35:19
that i've ever had
35:20
it's an amazing grinder it's pretty much
35:23
the only conical burr that i've really
35:24
enjoyed
35:26
i've used all sorts of baratza conical
35:28
burrs they're a lot cheaper
35:30
they're they're 300 400 for the nicer
35:33
one so
35:34
not a bad grinder by any means i think
35:36
you're definitely getting your money's
35:37
worth out of it
35:39
but this i just kind of feel like i fell
35:41
short in
35:42
all the cups that i had not bad i had
35:45
a couple v60s that were just like
35:47
amazing out of this
35:49
i actually felt like my air press was
35:51
never that good out of this
35:53
where out of this i could get i could
35:56
make about anything work
35:57
i could make it do about what i wanted
36:00
it to do no matter what if i wanted to
36:02
be stronger
36:03
pull out that fruitiness if i wanted it
36:05
to pull out
36:07
some of the dryness the clarity was
36:10
there i like a cleaner cup
36:12
this diddy has i forget 80
36:16
80 or 83 millimeter burrs and this is
36:19
like the cleanest cup of v60 like you'll
36:21
you'll look in your filter and the
36:23
filter is like clean when you're done so
36:25
this thing's making like
36:26
a very clean cup there's very few finds
36:28
does have more fines than
36:30
a much more premium grinder but you're
36:33
only paying 400 bucks
36:34
500 bucks so you're really getting
36:37
a heck of a deal you're getting uh over
36:40
a thousand dollar mazda super jolly
36:42
that's much more user friendly
36:44
for four or five hundred dollars
36:48
here
36:51
i paid more for this than msrp but
36:55
i'm just i don't feel like i'm getting
36:56
my money's worth out of it so
36:59
it's probably going to hit the market
37:00
here pretty soon so
37:02
if you're interested in that don't
37:04
message me i'm going to post it
37:06
somewhere else
37:07
but let me know what you think i'm sure
37:10
a lot of niche people probably upset but
37:12
that's fine
37:13
like i said i'm probably not going to
37:15
keep either of these i i'll probably
37:16
keep this one just because i think it's
37:18
a pretty cool grinder it's nice it's a
37:19
second grinder
37:20
that might be one more thing that i'll
37:21
point out about having a grinder like
37:23
this
37:24
so if you started with one of these and
37:26
like upgraded to something else k30
37:28
and this is your primary day-to-day it's
37:30
your on-demand i prefer the on-demand
37:33
and you're getting that bean on the
37:34
weekend new being like man i want to try
37:36
this out or
37:37
you're a roaster and you're trying out
37:40
five different beans because you're
37:41
roasting all those different profiles
37:43
something like this is pretty sweet
37:45
because you dose it you grind it
37:48
clean it out and you can change beans
37:51
really quick
37:52
don't put like flavored beans in there
37:54
unless that's all you're using it for
37:56
but you can swap from bean to bean to
37:58
being really easy
38:00
you technically could with this but
38:01
you're gonna have to single dose that
38:02
it's gonna be a little bit
38:03
harder to clean out they're gonna retain
38:05
a little bit more
38:07
where these are these are gonna retain a
38:08
lot less so really good
38:10
second grinder or a really good first
38:12
grinder
38:14
and hang on to these if you ever upgrade
38:17
because i think you're going to find
38:18
yourself missing it so
38:20
really good fairly inexpensive both
38:23
these are
38:24
supposed to be relatively inexpensive
38:26
this one i think the hype has the price
38:28
up
38:28
but they should be about the same price
38:30
in my opinion really good grinders so
38:33
i don't think you could go wrong with
38:34
either of these people have their
38:36
opinions on flat versus conical i'm a
38:38
flatbur guy if you like conical that's
38:41
fine
38:42
but both of them are pretty nice
38:44
grinders
38:45
i would keep them both i'm not going to
38:46
keep them at too many grinders but
38:49
let me know what you think now in the
38:50
comments thanks for watching